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Post by Show me the Money! on Feb 23, 2022 12:34:58 GMT -5
New informational thread...lets try...
Given the thread on the Mid-Atlantic Dirtbag's financial "improprieties", hopeful to create dialogue to disclose financial information with other organizations.
A few buttumptions to help break fees down.
a.) Club, Private or National organizations only. We buttume the recreational based program will always cost less given field access and a level of subsidy by the entity
b.) Separate the seasons. Is the fee Spring/Summer/Fall or Fall as a stand alone
c.) Fee to the parent organization, national or state
d.) "Administrative Fee"
e.) Is the Head Coach/buttistant Coach paid, or in lieu of their son(s) playing for free or reduced. Coach per flat stipend or per tourney. That number and item "f" can be significant to the total budget.
f.) Travel/Hotel expenses compensated
g.) Uniforms included in fee or excluded
h.) Finally state the per player fee (please explain the season(s) that the funds apply
i.) Facility or training fees included?
j.) Number of tournaments and where drives budget. Share the number and any high cost events (PG National, Omaha, Ripken Events)
Some of the chatter on the Mid Atlantic Dirtbags speaks about a line item budget presented to the parents. Given more alignment of organizations with National programs (most recently Olney with Canes), that type of disclosure is rarely presented. It's like buying a car, you can add "a la carte" packages to the base price but they don't tell you the cost of the components.
Ideal for the following organizations to share, in no particular order....
Canes
5 Star National, Mid-Atlantic, Coastal, Maryland or whatever of the 300 5-Star teams that are around the country
Mid-Atlantic Red Sox
US Elite
Rawlings A's/Prospects
FTB Mid-Atlantic
Gambrill's (seems the board is littered with Gambrills chat but they seem to be more rec aligned but hey, include them if they choose)
Mid-Atlantic Dirtbags (why not)
API
Delmarva Aces
Dig In
Richmond Braves (more effect with VA players)
Any others?
Regardless of club, the invested cost to play and the travel/hotel/meal costs are significant. Everyone is paddling in the same stream so no need to share negative information.
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Post by Gambrills on Feb 23, 2022 17:27:33 GMT -5
Gambrills has no rec baseball strictly a travel org from 9-14u
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Post by Show me the Money! on Feb 23, 2022 18:28:55 GMT -5
Thanks for adding clarity. Gambrills owns their complex so their structure is unique. Welcome any data on the financial items for Gambrills
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Post by MID ATLANTIC DB on Feb 23, 2022 18:52:40 GMT -5
2022 OFFICIAL INVITATION
Congratulations on your Official Invitation to join the Mid-Atlantic Dirtbags. You have earned this invite and we are excited to have you be a part of our program, our dugout, and our culture.
Our Staff is working to provide the greatest opportunities to both develop your skills and provide the exposure to showcase your abilities. By accepting this invite you are not only committing to advance your success but also committing to be a true gamer, a real DirtBag.
Our Season schedule will feature events that will build not only your skills but also, you’re standing in the recruitment process and challenge your tools. We plan to put you in the best position to succeed and compete against challenging competition. The annual cost is $3,500. (Affiliate cost is less and players get more)
A final schedule will be communicated by your coach as soon as practical. Uniforms are a separate cost and vary based on teams, expect the orders site in early 2022.
To secure your roster position we need you to commit to the roster. We are asking each family to make a check payable to Dirtbags or Venmo @melissa-Miller-874 /Last four of phone #0556 (if asked to verify) by.
Dues must be paid in full by May 1, 2022.
Player’s dues are as follows:
December 1, 2021, $500 (this secures your spot)
January 15, 2022, $1,000
March 1, 2022, $1000
April 15th, 2022, $1,000
You may pay everything at once, you may take the structured payment plan above or you may begin making monthly payments to meet those dates.
If mailing a check mail to: Dirtbags Baseball c/o Melissa Miller, 12 Brocster Ct, Phoenix, MD 21131
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Post by Ripoff on Feb 23, 2022 23:09:37 GMT -5
Can also venmo @berniemadoff for easier payment options. We greatly appreciate supporting our teams. The events will help build your skills. Not sure how but just trust us. If you are a PO we apologize in advance but you may not pitch in a weekend. We can reclbutt you though and eventually it works out. Our staff consists of 2 people but don’t let that scare you. Also, we need your $500 to commit because your word isn’t good enough.
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Post by Canes on Feb 23, 2022 23:25:59 GMT -5
2750 for seven “showcase” summer events; uniforms extra; 250 opt out fundraising. No clue as to how many players they carry.
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Post by Show me the Money on Feb 24, 2022 7:16:02 GMT -5
Referring back to other Mid Atlantic Dirtbag posts….does the $3500 include fall ball? The invitation says “annual” and previous posts referenced a $1600 fee from the past fall. We buttume this invite is for a high school age group and unlike the fall arrangement, uniforms are included?
Canes seems like a summer fee only? The Canes model is unique with all their non-National or American teams participating in their own showcase tourney arm known as “dynamic baseball”. Dynamic baseball.org were originators in the showcase tournament model.
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Post by DB Fraud on Feb 24, 2022 8:15:53 GMT -5
Prices above are for summer only
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Post by MID ATLANTIC DB on Feb 24, 2022 8:28:36 GMT -5
This is for the year now - however only includes 4-6 events in the summer and 4-6 events in the fall. No uniforms included, no details on which tournaments. blank check
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Post by Wrong on Feb 24, 2022 8:59:59 GMT -5
This is for the year now - however only includes 4-6 events in the summer and 4-6 events in the fall. No uniforms included, no details on which tournaments. blank check It is NOT for the year. $3500 is for the spring. Fall dues are $1500 Uniforms are separate. |
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Post by Show me the Money! on Feb 24, 2022 10:20:45 GMT -5
The Mid-Atlantic Dirtbag "franchise" has 3 or 4 high school age teams for summer 2022. The summer fee (at minimum) is $3,500 for 6 tournaments (include WWBA or is everything in the mid-atlantic as WWBA is approximately $3,000). 6 tourneys seems about right. The debatable items include weather fall ball is included (estimate $1,500 which would make the $3,500 fee reasonable for both seasons but if $5,000 for 12 tourneys...WOW!) and why is the uniform fee "excluded". The Dirtbag uniform model is elaborate so one could buttume that fee to be $500. Referring back to previous posts are how much "administrative fees" built into those numbers with some amount going to the NC Dirtbag organization in addition to how much is going to the Mid-Atlantic duo.....
Make no mistake, alignment with National organizations is HUGE money for the national organization. National organizations sell "franchises" to regional or state directors. Like a true franchise business, the regional/state directors pay a fee to the National organization for the "rights" to be the regional/state director. That person markets the franchise name to solicit local teams to play under their banner. That is how the local "franchise" returns their investment, all the while the National organization receives "royalties" on uniforms, admin, website and whatever fees. The consumer/player is effectively paying a fee to the local franchise AND a fee to the National franchise. Someone posted that about the Mid-Atlantic Dirtbags with NC receiving $300/per player and Mid-Atlantic receiving $300/per player as well. This financial arrangement is built into all the national/local models in some form or fashion....just the current capitalization of Amateur baseball. It's up to the consumer to determine their personal pricing point knowing that some amount is going to the pockets of (2) levels of admin.
Another reality is the "National" teams of these major National organizations are funded by the regional/state teams. Don't be naive to think the players that are brought in for big National tournaments pay to play! The local $$$ is used to fund those teams. Ever see pictures of the "Canes" bus? It's impressive for sure.
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Post by Show me the Money! on Feb 24, 2022 11:50:00 GMT -5
17u team has this on the agenda for the summer. Info via a highly credible dad who son left the team due to injury in the fall.
MA Dirtbag Camp
PBR Virginia open
PG Coastal Summer Championships in NC
Prospect Select Annapolis
Prospect Select Philly
PG Coastal WS in Ruther Glen
MA Dirtbags Showcase probably at calvert hall
Uniforms are not included in the $3500 fee for the spring-summer season. Roughly 15 kids on the roster.
The above info came from another poster (Fred McGriff) under the Mid-Atlantic Dirtbags thread. If accurate, $3,500 is for Spring/Summer (Fall not included or the uniform). Let the buyer determine the value...but approximately $5,500 for the 2022 year with the Mid-Atlantic Dirtbags seems.....
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Post by Matt on Feb 24, 2022 12:03:56 GMT -5
The Mid-Atlantic Dirtbag "franchise" has 3 or 4 high school age teams for summer 2022. The summer fee (at minimum) is $3,500 for 6 tournaments (include WWBA or is everything in the mid-atlantic as WWBA is approximately $3,000). 6 tourneys seems about right. The debatable items include weather fall ball is included (estimate $1,500 which would make the $3,500 fee reasonable for both seasons but if $5,000 for 12 tourneys...WOW!) and why is the uniform fee "excluded". The Dirtbag uniform model is elaborate so one could buttume that fee to be $500. Referring back to previous posts are how much "administrative fees" built into those numbers with some amount going to the NC Dirtbag organization in addition to how much is going to the Mid-Atlantic duo..... Make no mistake, alignment with National organizations is HUGE money for the national organization. National organizations sell "franchises" to regional or state directors. Like a true franchise business, the regional/state directors pay a fee to the National organization for the "rights" to be the regional/state director. That person markets the franchise name to solicit local teams to play under their banner. That is how the local "franchise" returns their investment, all the while the National organization receives "royalties" on uniforms, admin, website and whatever fees. The consumer/player is effectively paying a fee to the local franchise AND a fee to the National franchise. Someone posted that about the Mid-Atlantic Dirtbags with NC receiving $300/per player and Mid-Atlantic receiving $300/per player as well. This financial arrangement is built into all the national/local models in some form or fashion....just the current capitalization of Amateur baseball. It's up to the consumer to determine their personal pricing point knowing that some amount is going to the pockets of (2) levels of admin. Another reality is the "National" teams of these major National organizations are funded by the regional/state teams. Don't be naive to think the players that are brought in for big National tournaments pay to play! The local $$$ is used to fund those teams. Ever see pictures of the "Canes" bus? It's impressive for sure. Which Mid Atlantic Dirtbags teams are going to WWBA this upcoming summer? So based based upon the information provided for the 17u team, tournament fees are roughly $7500 for the 2022 summer. Tournament fees are easily found under the tournament details and easy to locate on Perfect Game and PBR. If tournament fees are $7500 and there are 15 players on the roster, then it would cost each player $500 before any additionally fees are added. You're telling me there are $3K of additional fees for each player??!! And this doesn't include an "elaborate" uniform, which is probably another $500. It's pretty easy to understand why people want to see an itemized breakdown of player fees with this amount of money being spent. |
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Post by Show me the Money! on Feb 24, 2022 13:20:44 GMT -5
Interesting calculation Matt! I would perhaps mention that hotels and travel fees would likely be included but certainly not to the tune of $3K per player, especially since airfare is not needed for the 17U tourneys listed.
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Post by Matt on Feb 24, 2022 13:46:19 GMT -5
Interesting calculation Matt! I would perhaps mention that hotels and travel fees would likely be included but certainly not to the tune of $3K per player, especially since airfare is not needed for the 17U tourneys listed. I wouldn't call myself a math genius. 2022 Summer Schedule 5/28 - Dirtbag Camp 6/17 - PBR Virginia Open 6/24 - PG WWBA Coastal Summer Championship (NC) 6/29 - Prospect Select (Annapolis) 7/22 - Prospect Select World Series (Philadelphia, PA) 7/28 - PG Coastal World Series (VA) 8/5 - Scout day 8/6 - Dirtbag College Showcase PBR VA Open: $1395 PG Coastal Championships: $1395 Prospect Select: $1600 Prospect WS: $1650 PG Coastal WS: $1495 - Dirtbag camp is probably all the teams scrimmaging together. - Scout Day is PBR scout day which is free. (MA Dirtbags is owed a free scout day from the crappy weather day this past fall) - Dirtbag College Showcase may have a cost, but its probably already built in. Total Tournament cost for the 17u MA Dirtbags is $7535 *Note: They are not attending the $2250 PBR Nationals at Lake Point nor the $3k WWBA World Championships. Again, where is the money? LOL |
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