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Post by Sig on Jul 21, 2018 15:29:37 GMT -5
One of our (Tide) better pitchers threw 149 in two outings over four days last weekend... essentially 72 and 79. That's a lot for us. But his velo was better in the 4th/5th than it was earlier in the game and we continuously asked him how he felt. He ended up throwing a complete game and wanted to finish it (championship game) out.
We took care of his arm following the game and talked his dad about how he should care for his arm the next few days.
One aspect that should be considered... has a kid worked up to throwing 70-80 pitches a game? If so, and they feel good, let em roll. If not, no need to shock an arm with increased workload. Also, does the kid have good mechanics? Our pitcher did/does.
247-239-228- and 198 is criminal.
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Post by oldtimer on Jul 21, 2018 17:31:23 GMT -5
Depends on age -for a ten year old I would say maybe mid 80’s over 4 days. Every kid is different but no way a kid is physically mature or developed enough to throw more than an adult(and what would be the max an mlb pitcher would throw?)
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Post by manbun on Jul 21, 2018 19:45:00 GMT -5
One of our (Tide) better pitchers threw 149 in two outings over four days last weekend... essentially 72 and 79. That's a lot for us. But his velo was better in the 4th/5th than it was earlier in the game and we continuously asked him how he felt. He ended up throwing a complete game and wanted to finish it (championship game) out. We took care of his arm following the game and talked his dad about how he should care for his arm the next few days. One aspect that should be considered... has a kid worked up to throwing 70-80 pitches a game? If so, and they feel good, let em roll. If not, no need to shock an arm with increased workload. Also, does the kid have good mechanics? Our pitcher did/does. 247-239-228- and 198 is criminal. Actually it was 72 first day and 77 the final day of tourney, and it comes out to 13.5 pitches an inning which is actually really good.
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Post by loudcoachsteve on Jul 21, 2018 19:59:10 GMT -5
If a kid can average 13.5 at 10 that's better than what you ask of a High schoool pitcher. My buttistant coach in high school asked for 15 and inning. I know every person is different in what they can handle. But i just saw these numbers to be astronomical and honestly major leaguers don't even see these numbers in 4 days.
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Post by Commin Sense on Jul 21, 2018 21:20:54 GMT -5
A 10 year old who pitches more than 66 should have 4+ days rest. This is a solid guideline that USA baseball and MLB have advised. Also, the max per outing should be 75. There are too many dads coaching who didn’t play college or pro ball and don’t know better. There is a reason that in the 1990’s there was essentially no TJ surgeries and now 57% are for 15-19 year olds. Why press the max against these guidelines? Well, “the kid said he was fine”, “his parents said it was ok”, “he’s a bigger kid.”. All poor excuses. If you didn’t play above high school ball I would suggest you read up and educate yourself and your coaches. Your trophy case won’t have it’s feelings hurt if you have to go to a kid that doesn’t pitch as much because the championship game is your 3rd or 4th game on a Sunday.
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Post by manbun on Jul 21, 2018 23:25:46 GMT -5
I can somewhat agree with what you are saying, but MLB has a 25 man roster and most 10U travel teams carry 12 or so players. I know we are very into our kids pitch counts and not innings and trust me you can see when a kid is fatigued. Most kids go to another position, usually our kids come out for that inning and the next to do their band work. PO really only kick in above the 13U level, which makes pitch counts even more important for the younger ages. As for coaching, you didn’t have to play college baseball or be a MLB player to be able to coach youth baseball.
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Post by oldtimer on Jul 22, 2018 7:07:35 GMT -5
I briefly looked at the pitching stats from my 13 year olds team last 3 seasons. Maybe I missed one but found 7 times a kid threw over 70 and in each case they didn’t pitch again for a week. All about what your priorities are. Need to pitch your whole roster when they are young if you want to play tournaments. Did it cost us a game or 2 now and then? Possibly but was worth it not to overpitch someone.. Coaches who overpitch their kids fall into 2 categories ,those who don’t know and those who don’t care. That is why its shocking most tournaments have no pitching restrictions.
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Post by Baseball dad on Jul 28, 2018 18:30:44 GMT -5
So what team are you referring to, the team that knocked you out in the semis?
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Post by loudcoachsteve on Jul 29, 2018 17:17:08 GMT -5
100% I am. I have given diamond Pros their props for going to ohio and winning the ship. But in my opinion I wouldn't do that to a kid for a plastic trophy. Are we forgetting that no one remembers what you do at 10? I am more worried about developing good ball players for the future.
So yes baseball dad I 💯 percent am talking about them. And if you have an issue with me calling someone out for flat out the start of arm failure please feel free to name a place and I'll buy you a beer and we can discuss how it's bull.
I personally have been the victim to overuse and lost my scholarship .....have you?
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Post by oldtimer on Jul 29, 2018 18:33:06 GMT -5
If the counts are accurate in the original post a little more disturbing that it came from a team (according to their website) that is part of a regional organization . But we live in a day where some parents(more than kids and in some case even coaches) take winning and losing way too seriously in youth baseball. Do anyone know a case of parent going to a coach and complaining their kid was overused?
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Post by manbun on Jul 29, 2018 19:32:15 GMT -5
My kid is always over used 😂
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Post by loudcoachsteve on Jul 29, 2018 19:36:41 GMT -5
Oldtimer I totally agree with everything you just said.
But to your last point I can sit here and honestly say, I am an buttistant coach and I am the first to tell our head coach a kid can't go another pitch and not just my son. I can give 2 💩S about winning a national tournament if it puts my son or anyone else's son in a position to injury their arm.
As I stated in the previous post, I've been that victim and it won't happen to any of the kids on a team I coach.
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Post by loudcoachsteve on Jul 29, 2018 19:37:06 GMT -5
Your kid Dave? Which dog is over used?
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Post by manbun on Jul 29, 2018 20:11:45 GMT -5
I don’t feel any of our kids are over used ever. Any my son is always good to go
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Post by oldtimer on Jul 29, 2018 20:31:07 GMT -5
Oldtimer I totally agree with everything you just said. But to your last point I can sit here and honestly say, I am an buttistant coach and I am the first to tell our head coach a kid can't go another pitch and not just my son. I can give 2 💩S about winning a national tournament if it puts my son or anyone else's son in a position to injury their arm. As I stated in the previous post, I've been that victim and it won't happen to any of the kids on a team I coach. Coach Steve I applaud what you do with your team regarding the pitch counts. However in my opinion you shouldn’t have to -there should be pitch counts and an end to managers discretion. Look they had to put pitch counts in high school and theoretically high school coaches are more qualified/experienced than youth coaches. I would love for someone to make an argument how a 10,11,12, or 13 year old should be permitted to throw more pitches than a MLB pitcher
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